"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
09/22/2016 at 09:00 • Filed to: None
5
12|
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
09/22/2016 at 09:00 • Filed to: None | 5
| 12 |
In what is the longest-titled podcast of my 100+ episodes to date, I respond to one of the most common complaints I get at my office. People spend too much on a car and try to blame the seller. Welcome to America.
And I say “Welcome to America” for two reasons: 1) Sellers here are supposed to maximize their profits (it’s called “capitalism”) and 2) People always wonder if they can sue someone else when something goes wrong.
In Michigan, there WAS a law that made it illegal to sell a product for a price “grossly in excess of the value of the goods,” which was aimed primarily at situations where there was really something else bad going on. Like a seller taking advantage of someone who could not protect their own interests and so on. But the law was struck down by our state Supreme Court because it does things like that.
So now? All bets are off. But there are things you can do to prevent this from happening to you (or someone you know). Primarily, it’s called “research.” So, here is the audio:
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
And the video:
Pic at the top is of a car I saw at a car show not in Ann Arbor, but in nearby Ypsilanti.
Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 24 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .
This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.
TysMagic
> SteveLehto
09/22/2016 at 09:19 |
|
jumping straight to the comments without listening yet, but on the loan originations side of this game, when I was first getting in to my role as a credit analyst, a mustang came across my screen at 150% of it’s suggested value. The customer more the qualified for the amount of money, but the mental dilemma I had with knowingly saying, “Yes Mr. Dealer, stick it to him. Approved.” drove me nuts. The same applies to the way rate mark up works. It was difficult to shift from the consumer, looking for the best deal side, to the in it for as much money as possible business side
facw
> SteveLehto
09/22/2016 at 09:22 |
|
But NADA tells me I need car dealers to protect me from those horrible predatory manufacturers...
OPPOsaurus WRX
> SteveLehto
09/22/2016 at 09:24 |
|
ilegal no, moral....
you might find this interesting
https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/…
my office did some design work for the Beachcomber project. Its all really amazing to hear. It sounds like something out of a movie.
KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
> SteveLehto
09/22/2016 at 09:30 |
|
Always good to listen to Steve!
I would like to get your thoughts about the similar “price gouging” laws that are prevalent in hurricane country (the South). Being in Atlanta, we have had to deal with the supply disruption of the pipeline leak.
Then the governor comes out and declares the “price gouging” law in effect. I haven’t read the text of the law yet, but it would seem to have the same sort of issues as the overcharging law in MI.
What’s your take?
|
SteveLehto
> TysMagic
09/22/2016 at 09:37 |
|
Thanks for the note. I’ve heard some crazy stories but it always amazes me when people say, “But they told me it was a fair price!”
|
SteveLehto
> facw
09/22/2016 at 09:38 |
|
“NADA is also way off on pricing,” said every dealer. (Too high when valuing your trade; too low when valuing your purchase).
|
SteveLehto
> OPPOsaurus WRX
09/22/2016 at 09:39 |
|
Wow.
|
SteveLehto
> KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
09/22/2016 at 09:41 |
|
That one is always a debate. If you oulaw “price gouging” then many people who would bring in whatever is being gouged (price-wise) will simply stay away. Those with the product won’t want to sell it at the perceived under-market price. And usually, a black market rises.
It is unclear if the anti-price gouging laws work. But they mean well.
Which is what politicians are good at.
jimz
> SteveLehto
09/22/2016 at 10:38 |
|
wouldn’t it be confounded by the culture of “haggling” over the price of the car? fuel is a fixed price, critical commodity, while strictly speaking a car isn’t.
|
jimz
> SteveLehto
09/22/2016 at 10:45 |
|
yeah, I remember the story of the lady who was conned into paying over $60,ooo for a Mazda 6. Fortunately for her the laws in Ontario were on her side. the deal was unwound and a couple of the sales staff ended up facing charges. Plus the savage outcry when the story broke resulted in Mazda of Canada pulling their franchise.
sometimes, trying them in the “Court of Public Opinion” might be your only recourse.
https://www.thestar.com/business/2010/…
|
KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
> SteveLehto
09/22/2016 at 22:29 |
|
But without the signal of price to adjust the market, it would seem to follow that the “feel-good” law ends up distorting the market, leading from “you can buy it, but it’s very expensive” to “you can’t buy it at any price”.
Which in essence defeats the purpose of the price gouging laws, if you can’t actually buy that which is price controlled.
|
SteveLehto
> KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
09/23/2016 at 09:04 |
|
Yes, everyone knows this is the result but they pass the laws anyway. Same with rent control. Ends up creating weird problems but does not actually do what it is intended for (in theory): creating affordable housing in a particular market.